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Podcast: How to Have Hard Conversations with Those You Love (Caroline Newheiser and Cheryl Marshall)

October 04, 2021 by: Crossway

This article is part of the The Crossway Podcast series.

How and When to Confront

In our interview today, Cheryl Marshall and Caroline Newheiser, two counselors with years of experience, discuss how to have hard conversations with others that put the focus on what God has said, not their own opinions.

When Words Matter Most

When Words Matter Most

Cheryl Marshall, Caroline Newheiser

In When Words Matter Most, Cheryl Marshall and Caroline Newheiser encourage and guide women to discover that they can make a difference in the lives of those they love who are worried, weary, wayward, and weeping.

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Topics Addressed in This Interview:

00:51 - Anxiety about Hard Conversations

Matt Tully
Cheryl and Caroline, thank you so much for joining me today on The Crossway Podcast.

Cheryl Marshall
We’re happy to be here.

Glad to be here.

Matt Tully
At various points in all of our lives, we’ll each face situations where we need to have a hard conversation with somebody. Probably for most of us—maybe not all of us—we would feel some level of anxiety about that. We don’t really love the need to do that, even though sometimes we do feel like we need to have that conversation. Cheryl, can you resonate with that feeling of anxiety about a hard conversation?

Cheryl Marshall
Definitely. There are so many times in our Christian walk when we see someone that we love and we care about, and maybe they’re struggling with sin or they’re struggling under some kind of suffering, and we may feel like we want to speak with them but we may not always know what to say. I have definitely felt that way with my own children. With those that I love and those who are closest to me, when I see something that is going on in their lives and I need to speak with them about it, that can be hard. But over the years I’ve learned the importance of taking that step.

Matt Tully
As you look back over your life, what has been harder: conversations with people you’re closest to, or conversations with people you didn’t really know as well?

Cheryl Marshall
I would say it’s harder with those people that you know, because they know your sin too. They know your suffering. They have seen what you’ve gone through and how maybe you have not always handled it well yourself. And here you are now trying to help bring their lives under the submission of the Lord in whatever they’re going through, but they know your weaknesses. So that can be a little bit intimidating. But I think God gives us grace at that point to be able to share his word and help them to see that I’m not asking you to be like me. I’m asking you to be like the Lord, to follow him.

Matt Tully
Caroline, as you think back about your life, are there any specific conversations that you’ve had to have that you remember feeling really stressed out about?

Caroline Newheiser
Yes. I have had to talk to a friend about the way she comes across, specifically how she’s treating her husband. We can be in a social situation and I hear what she says to him—and it’s in front of all of us—and to have to say to her, It sounds to me like this was cutting him down, that is very stressful because they’re social friends.

Matt Tully
And you’re trying to strike that balance of not coming across as shaming them, not as condemning them, but you want to come across as trying to help, right?

Caroline Newheiser
Exactly. Speaking the truth in love.

Matt Tully
One of the things that I’ve wrestled with at times is discerning when I should say something and when I should let the issue go that I just saw. Maybe it’s because it’s not a big enough deal or maybe it’s not my business or maybe it’s just not the right time. Cheryl, when you’re faced with something that doesn’t seem quite right to you, how do you decide when to talk to someone and when to simply let it go?

Cheryl Marshall
There are a few things that come to mind. One, if it’s an offense against me, something that I’ve taught my children that I’ve also learned from Peacemaker, is that sometimes there are things that you just need to overlook—if it’s not something that you’re going to hold a grudge about, if it’s just a minor offense that I can overlook. If not, then I need to talk it out with them. If it’s something that I know that I personally will have trouble overcoming in my own heart, then I need to talk it out. If I’ve spoken with them about it and it hasn’t gone well, then maybe I need to get help from someone else and we talk together. That’s if there’s been some sort of hurt against me. But when you see something going on in someone else’s life, that’s a time for you to think about a couple of things. Number one, are they hurting themselves and number two, are they hurting someone else in the process? If it’s somebody who is talking in such a way that you think they may harm themselves or they’re going through something that you see is really detrimental to their own spiritual life, that’s a time to just be brave and to step in and speak with them—lovingly and gently—but to still speak with them. Also, if it’s something you see that is bringing public shame to the Lord Jesus Christ, that is also a time to be willing to go speak with them about whatever is going on in their life. So, those are a couple of things to keep in mind. Maybe Caroline has a couple of other things on that.

Matt Tully
Caroline, anything you would add to that?

Caroline Newheiser
My first thought was the public aspect of sin warrants us speaking to one another. I’m thinking about Paul’s rebukes in Corinthians and the public nature of the sin there. We’ve used 1 and 2 Corinthians as an idea of how to rebuke and when and why. But also, there are people who have doctrinal errors that maybe they don’t see things correctly or are promoting a view that we think is false, and that would be a time when, for the sake of their soul but also whoever is teaching or transmitting that thought, they need to be spoken to privately.

Cheryl Marshall
One other thing is if you see a habitual sin. There are times when someone you love may do something that is just a one-off type of thing. You don’t need to jump in and be the police there. Rather, if there’s a habitual attitude or a habitual behavior that you know is contrary to Scripture and that you think you can come along and encourage them with that, that would be something to consider also.

Matt Tully
Caroline, what’s been more common in your experience—talking to someone and it not going well and then you have regretted trying to talk with them to begin with, or not talking to somebody about something and then later wishing that you had?

Caroline Newheiser
I’m the avoider, so I am not prone to go and jump in. When you see a sin and you think ,Oh, I should have said something, it’s like Cheryl said—if it’s habitual and it’s coming up again, you’ll have another opportunity. It’s piling up so that you realize, Oh, this does need to be addressed. Even if I didn’t say anything then, it’s happening again. In my counseling ministry, people are coming in and it’s common that I will speak to them words that they need to hear to just align their thoughts and their actions with what Christ asks.

08:44 - Principles for Hard Conversations

Matt Tully
Let’s say that you’re convicted that you really do need to talk to somebody about something difficult. Cheryl, what principles would be going through your mind as you prepare to have that conversation?

Cheryl Marshall
The first thing that comes to mind is preparing my heart to speak with gentleness and with care, and not to come in judgmental and not coming in with an accusing type of attitude, but rather an attitude that just says, I love you. I want to come alongside you. I see this going on in your life and I would like to talk with you about it. I think one of the important things there is not to just come in to talk, but also to come in and listen. Ask some questions about the situation and what they’re going through so that I have a better understanding and maybe can confirm what I have observed. The other thing is taking the time to think what does the Scripture say about what I want to talk with this person about? Ultimately, I don’t want to bring them my opinion. My opinion ultimately doesn’t matter. What really is important is what God’s opinion is about whatever is going on in their life. I see it like this—you know those old cartoons with Tom and Jerry and maybe there’s a big, beautiful platter of food? That platter was just set on the table and Tom and Jerry go crazy over it. I see it like this: my job is just to bring the platter before the person. God’s word is that beautiful food on the platter. I set it before them for them to taste of it and for them to see it and for them to respond to it. So that’s how I view it in my mind. The gentleness, bringing them God’s word, and there was one other thing that came to mind and it went out with the platter!

10:58 - Opinion or Authority of Scripture?

Matt Tully
Caroline, do you ever feel that temptation that I think many of us feel? We often do have our own opinions and thoughts. You have to intentionally direct yourself towards looking to Scripture and drawing on that rather than just sharing your own thoughts.

Caroline Newheiser
That’s so true because some people think that if we’re confronting others it’s because we’re bossy people and controlling people—

Matt Tully
Or we think we have it all figured out.

Caroline Newheiser
That may be the attitude that comes out, but if you’re bringing Scripture you have that authority of the word. It shows where your own thoughts are coming out of; they’re coming out of Scripture. But if I have an opinion, I will be sure to say it. I say, Well, it’s my opinion that what you said sounded like you were criticizing your husband. Or, That sounded like gossip to me. Without confronting her—it’s like Cheryl’s illustration—you offer truth and I’m relying on the Holy Spirit to convict and for people to respond. One thing I might add to Cheryl’s points is spending a lot of time in prayer in preparation before you confront, because we’ll think, I don’t know what to say. What spirit am I going to speak in? We have to pray and we have to ask for the Lord to work and for the Holy Spirit to be active.

Cheryl Marshall
As you’re speaking I thought of my other one, and that was preparing your heart to have an attitude of restoration. I think that’s really important. What is the motive for why you are speaking with that person? Is it just to show them that they’re wrong or whatever that may be? That would be the wrong attitude, but we are to restore one another with a spirit of gentleness, and so the purpose of confrontation when that happens should be to restore that person back to a right relationship with God, and therefore back to a right relationship with others.

Matt Tully
As I assess my own heart in situations like that where I feel some kind of a desire to talk to somebody about something, it can be a little hard to disentangle selfish motives from good, pure motives. Have you ever experienced that where you could kind of make the case that you should talk to somebody about something that needs to be addressed, but maybe I’m still not necessarily in a good frame of mind to do that in a pure way? Do you resonate with that?
Caroline Newheiser
True. That’s where we have to pray for a while before we speak. I think “be quick to listen and slow to speak” is one of the good principles there.

Cheryl Marshall
I don’t think there’s anything wrong at times of just waiting. Like she said, there may be a time where you just need to wait a little bit and you need to deal with your own heart before the Lord. Be prayerful, be in the word. I think one of the hard things is we may never come to have the perfect motive. Some people can say, Then I should just never say anything to her or to him about what’s going on in their life because I know I have stuff in my life too. We need to humbly deal with that before the Lord and understand that we aren’t perfect and they’re not perfect. We’re coming alongside someone and not saying, I’m better than you. I’ve got it all together and you don’t. But rather, say, I have my struggles, and I know you have your struggles. I care about you and I love you so much that where I see this in your life I do want to talk with you about it, and if I can help you through that I want to be here for you.

Matt Tully
Do you find it’s important to explicitly say that in every conversation you might have like this?

Caroline Newheiser
That’s how I would start out the conversation. If somebody is asking, How do I do that? I would say, I love you. It’s because I care for you that I feel like I need to say this. I know I, too, have problems. I’m sharing with you out of what I’ve learned when I struggled with the same thing. I just wanted to bring out a passage that means a lot to me. It’s 2 Corinthians 5:18: “All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation.” So it’s not even reconciliation between people, but reconciliation, like Cheryl said, the broken relationship with the Lord. That is a ministry that we have been given.

Matt Tully
Caroline, that actually ties into something you mentioned even earlier that we’re always trying to share biblical truth, not just our own thoughts. I do wonder how that practically looks. What role, practically, does the Bible play in speaking truth into someone else’s life in a situation like this?

Caroline Newheiser
That’s a very good question. It’s why we wrote the book. We are bringing out plenty of scriptures. Like, to help the weeping woman. Even without a rebuke, to come alongside and say, I have hope for you. I have something to strengthen you and encourage you, and it’s the word. It’s Scripture. God works through the word. The word became truth, came to earth, and it is how we learn of him. Sometimes I have to tell women those verses of what the word does. The Scripture trains us in godliness and it rebukes as well. I like to elevate Scripture as true truth.

Matt Tully
Is that typically the core of what you would want to say to somebody? You’re saying, Hey, I’ve seen this thing in your life, it seems like you’re struggling with it, here’s a passage of Scripture I thought could be relevant. Is that the pattern you would give, or does it work a little differently?

Cheryl Marshall
I think that’s a good pattern. There are going to be times when maybe in a quick conversation you might not think of an exact Bible Scripture reference, but as a believer who is spending time in God’s word and is sitting under sound preaching, it’s amazing the well of truth that God puts in our hearts that we can speak out of. Sometimes it may be a conversation that is informed by biblical truth, but you might not have said an exact Scripture reference or passage. But ideally, if we’re in God’s word and we’re meditating on that in our own lives, there are going to be passages that we can reference and bring that to someone in a conversation. I think the importance of that is, again, coming back to the idea that it’s ultimately my opinion that matters, but always pointing your loved one back to Christ and always pointing them back to his word. Later in our book near the very end we do mention how there is one Savior, and you’re not him; and I’m not him. That is only Christ. We can step into a loved one’s life and sometimes get that savior complex like, I’m going to fix them. I’m going to change them. I’m going to be the one who helps them. But ultimately, it’s Christ and we want to point them back to him and his word constantly.

Matt Tully
Very practically, how do you try to remember and keep track of verses that might apply to different situations or problems people face? I think we’ve all been there, Cheryl, where we might be able to apply a general biblical principle, but we don’t have a verse that comes to mind. Maybe we wish we did because it would be really helpful to give someone God’s actual words. Do you have any tips you have for keeping track of that?

Cheryl Marshall
I’m glad you mentioned that. It was just last week that my sixteen-year-old son came home from camp and they had a great speaker who obviously was in the word. But my son asked me, Mom, how do you get to the point where you know these scriptures and you’re able to just talk about them? Here he is a sixteen-year-old asking me that.

Matt Tully
What a great question!

Cheryl Marshall
I said to him, You know, Andrew, it comes with time. It comes with time of being in God’s word. But even as a sixteen-year-old, if he’s having his devotions or we’re having family devotions or he’s in the youth group and he hears something from God’s word, if it resonates it’s going to stick with him. That’s going to be something that he can share. But as far as tips are concerned, I know that Caroline and I do not have the best memory, and it’s getting worse the longer we go along and the older we get. So there’s nothing wrong with having things written down in your Bible in the margins or in the front of your Bible. With our cell phones, you can have a little list of verses that are right there at your fingertips. These are the verses that God has used to help me when I’m worried. These are the verses that God has used to help me when I’m discouraged. These are the verses God has used to help me when I am angry. You can have those things at your fingertips or on your Bible or on your cell phone and that you can reference. Nobody is going to look at you weird if you’re like, Can you hold on a minute? Let me just look this up on my phone. I think that’s so acceptable. I don’t know about Caroline, but I know for myself when I’m in a counseling situation, there are many times that I say, I know the phrase but I can’t remember where it is. Give me a second. Or I have her look it up with me. I would say feel free to not be perfect. You’re not going to ever be perfect at this. God’s not asking for that from us. But just be willing to be real and to share the word.

22:11 - Avoiding Bible Band-Aids

Matt Tully
Caroline, how do you avoid coming across as someone who is just always trying to slap a Bible band-aid on every problem that someone might have?

Caroline Newheiser
I like your question because that can be a misconception for people listening to our podcast and even our book. It’s so filled with Scripture like, If you’re weeping, here are some passages to use. But it’s acknowledging also the suffering that the person is enduring, even a person who has experienced great disappointment maybe and it’s just like, All you need to do is rejoice in the Lord always. That has been used as a Bible band-aid. Somebody will say that’s just a cliché. We use that term in our book, that it’s a Bible cliché, and we don’t want people doing that. We are actually giving Scripture and saying—that’s why I like to tell people it’s helped me. This is what I’ve used. For example, I was reading in my own Bible reading Jeremiah 31 and that whole chapter just came alive to me. It says, “I’ve loved you with an everlasting love; therefore, I have continued my faithfulness to you” (Jer. 31:3). The rest of the day when I’m sharing with people, it’s like this has just impacted me so much it’s like I had never read it before. Making it personal to me and I’m excited about it makes it more than just, Well, this is the verse to use when you think about that. It is living and active.

Cheryl Marshall
I think another thing that comes to my mind is when you’re speaking with someone who you love and they know you love them and they know that you are invested in their life, that often can help them receive biblical truth that you’re giving to them because they know that you’re not just rushing into their life and rushing out. You’re there for the long term. I have a dear friend who lost her son unexpectedly and she was telling me recently about something I had said to her months ago. She said, I was able to receive that from you because I know that you’re invested in me. It was at a hard point in her life as she was mourning the death of her son that we were talking about the goodness of God. I was talking to her about how God is still good. She was relaying to me that she had told some other friends that she was able to accept that from me at that time because of our history together and because she knew I loved her and I wasn’t there for a moment and then gone. I think that’s one of the things that helps, for people to receive biblical truth from another, and that’s why we really focused in our writing on speaking the truth to those you love, the ones who are in your sphere of influence because God’s given us each a different sphere that is unique unto us. It’s within that sphere that God calls us to speak the truth in love.

25:59 - How Do I Know When to Be Silent?

Matt Tully
I want to dig into the category of person who is maybe suffering in some way or grieving in some way. That’s obviously an important category of person in your book that you talk a little bit about. Is there ever a time when it’s best to actually just be silent with somebody and not just try to tell them the truth that maybe they already know? Maybe they don’t need to hear the truth again. They just need you to be present because the goal isn’t to fix the problem with a Bible verse. It’s sometimes just to remind them of what they know. How do you discern when you should just remain silent?

Caroline Newheiser
We have put some thought into that and looked at the story of Job and his friends who sat with him in a very caring way. We also realize that speaking is not the only way of communicating love to the sufferer, so we’ve tried to put some examples of practical things to do for someone who is really hurting. I think we should all be doing that, but we’ll need a reminder sometimes of how to approach somebody because we may not know what to say either. That’s a good time to be silent. You can say, I want to sit with you and just care for you by letting you talk.

Matt Tully
It seems like sometimes that’s a tendency that we can have. When we’re with someone who is suffering, we feel the need to say something because we think that’s what we’re supposed to do, but we don’t really know what to say. That sometimes maybe gets us into trouble a little bit; we say things we shouldn’t say and that aren’t helpful.

Cheryl Marshall
Right. I think those are times to, like you mentioned, just to be quiet, to sit with a person, cry with them, sit with them. Basic comments like, I love you,; I care for you; I’m sorry you’re going through this. As time goes on, asking questions such as, Is there anything that I can do to be helpful to you? and trying to meet whatever physical needs they may have during their time of suffering. Piggybacking on part of your question there, I do think it’s important to give people space to process the biblical truth they already know in relation to whatever suffering they’re going through. God is working in them. Even though we may not see that, he is ministering to them by his Spirit and by the word he’s already planted in their hearts, so giving people space to process through some of those things on their own. I have found with friends who are weeping that they will be ready to bring up some aspects of biblical truth that they want to talk about. If you’re there and you’ve been by their side, they know that you’re ready to speak with them about that.

29:04 - What Is the Role of the Spirit?

Matt Tully
I want to return to the topic of the Spirit and his role in helping us grow, but maybe before we get there, Caroline, what do you do when you have tried to talk to somebody in as gentle and loving and biblically-based way as possible, and then still the response you get back is maybe anger or denial or blame shifting or even a breaking of the relationship? What do you do with that? How do you process that?

Caroline Newheiser
It helps to, again, rely on the Spirit because we are just his instruments of ministering and reconciliation. So that helps to know that you are the instrument. You are being used by the Lord. But also, if they’re rejecting your advice, if it’s scriptural advice, then they’re actually going against what you’re trying to portray as God’s standard. So you can’t take it personally. I’ve found that with people in conflict with one another, just to know that, for example, if my husband is rejecting my love, he’s actually rejecting what God has told him to do. So I don’t need to take it personally.

Matt Tully
That’s easier said than done.

Caroline Newheiser
Exactly. It’s true because if we really care, then it’s like watching a train crash, or getting ready to crash, and you’re like, Oh! You can avoid it! If you would follow the Lord’s way, his path is straight. He will light your path and make it straight. So it’s hard to see that happening, but again, to give them their own responsibility. It’s not your responsibility to make change.

Matt Tully
Cheryl, do you ever struggle with what often would happen in that situation that, namely, people would judge your motives or assume the worst about why you’re saying what you’re saying and what you think about them. Is that ever a challenge?

Cheryl Marshall
Oh yeah. I think that’s a challenge for many people who see a situation that they want to speak truth into, but that’s where I think that going back to prayer and having a clear conscience before the Lord and examining your own heart—taking the log out of your own eye before you try to take the speck out of your neighbor’s eye. As you’ve gone through that process, eventually you have to entrust yourself to the Lord. Lord, I’m going to trust you with my reputation. I’m going to trust you with how this comes across. I’m desiring to glorify you and honor you in this situation, and I can’t control how the other person will ultimately receive that. So Lord, I’m going to entrust myself to you as I walk through this process.

Matt Tully
Cheryl, another follow up question to that. When it comes to helping other Christians grow in Christ, how do you—to kind of use a somewhat trite phrase—how do you leave room for the Spirit and not overstep your calling as a sister in Christ to that person? What does that look like?

Cheryl Marshall
I really, again, come back to the idea that we present biblical truth to that person. We can give our opinions on maybe how that can be applied in their lives and give them suggestions, but ultimately, we give them the word and trust the Holy Spirit to work that into the nitty gritty of their own lives. Specifically, let’s say if I’m discipling a woman, we may be reading a book of the Bible together or a Christian book that applies biblical principles, and as we go through that I may ask her, What here resonates in your own life? What is the Lord teaching you from what we’ve read and what we’ve discussed? I let her verbalize that and have space to talk that out with me. Then, as she mentions something where she’s learning or growing, as a sister in the Lord I can come alongside and say, I encourage that. That’s great. I see that happening in your life and that’s really great. The Lord is working in you. But just giving them space to process that, to think about it for themselves, to think about how to apply it in their own lives, and then giving helpful suggestions as they do that.

Caroline Newheiser
One thing I might add, too, is that people reading our book may say, Well, that’s personality driven. A powerful personality can take over and convince people to do things just by persuasive speech or strong attitude, but that doesn’t leave room for the Holy Spirit—back to your question. So, we don’t want to say, I am able to help people change because I am very smart in Scripture, very strong in emphasis, good in debate skills. But we want our readers to think, I can do this, even if I’m a quiet person or a meek person. I can still confront people and show love to them by applying Scripture. The Spirit will do the work.

Cheryl Marshall
A very encouraging verse for me along these lines is found in 1 Thessalonians 2:13. It says, “And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers.” So, if I’m sitting with a believing person in my family or a friend or in counseling and I know that they make a profession of faith in Christ and I trust that they are walking with him, I know that God is at work using his word to accomplish his good purposes in their life. And I’m just part of that story; I’m not making that happen. I just have the privilege of walking alongside them in that.

Matt Tully
Caroline, maybe coming at this question from a slightly different angle, what would be some of the warning signs that you’re overstepping in your role related to a fellow Christian?

Caroline Newheiser
I would emphasize the fact that we need to be good listeners and a person who will draw people out. Good listeners actually listen for more than just words, but observe the reaction to what you’re saying. I think we can be very good at reading people’s faces or body language and say, Did I hurt your feelings? It looks like maybe you’re not believing what I’m saying or you don’t think I care about you. I really do. So that’s one thing I would say is watch for those signs. They may actually argue against you, and that would be clear that it looks like I need to step back and say, I’m going to pray for you and ask the Lord to work.

37:17 - Being a Good Truth Receiver

Matt Tully
Cheryl, how can we become better truth receivers in our relationships with other Christians? Going to the other side of this equation of not merely being good at sharing truth with others, but actually receiving truth ourselves. Do you find that can be a challenge? We might think we’re really good at giving truth to other people, but then we maybe are good examples of people who get very defensive when others try to do the same for us.

Cheryl Marshall
Two things come to mind. First of all, we need to have a heart attitude of humility. That’s something that comes with time and with seeing our own weaknesses and seeing our own sin. Just praying for a heart of humility. Looking at Scripture as far as what God teaches about having a humble heart. We need to be humble before the Lord and humble before his people. Secondly, the other thing that comes to mind is if we have a high view of Scripture—that God’s word is pure and it’s good and it’s holy and it is right—that when someone brings biblical truth to us, we will be much more receptive to it. I guess it comes down to what is the view of yourself and what is your view of God and his word? I need to have a humble heart. It is hard, just like you said. We all struggle with that. Who wants somebody to point out your sin or your weaknesses? That’s no fun. But actually, as I think about it and as we’ve talked about it and written about it, God has saved us into a family. God has saved us into a body. We are members of one another. God did not save us to walk alone. We can really appreciate that in our own lives and we can see it as a gift and a grace of God when someone speaks into our lives.

Matt Tully
Caroline, is there anything else you would add to that?

Caroline Newheiser
I would say a good receiver has those qualities Cheryl mentioned. Humility would be the first thing and the second, as she said, is to respect the word of God. A good listener would also take things in the right way. Like, love hopes all things. I’m expecting that you’re saying this for the right motive. It’s the flip side that you do care for me. Like Cheryl has already told us, we have a long-standing relationship. You’re in my life, you care, so I really should listen carefully. It happens often in marriage, doesn’t it? We are living with somebody and we’re always coming up against someone else, but you have that established relationship and a trust that whatever the other person is saying is for your good and for God’s glory.

Matt Tully
Caroline, speak to the person listening right now who is thinking, I think I need more wise truth tellers in my life. I want that—people who will help me think more biblically about the problems that I’m facing. But I don’t know how to find that. How do I ask for that in a way that doesn’t just feel super awkward and weird for other people?

Caroline Newheiser
That is such a need, Matt, and I’m thankful that you brought it up. Our book is trying to address this need. At the beginning of our book we talk about how we’re all called to minister to one another. Like Cheryl said, each one is necessary in the body. I can’t tell you how many times women have said, Can we get together? I just need to talk to somebody who knows truth. How do we do that? I think we should look around in our churches for those wise women who may not be the one with the strong personality. They may be the quiet ones who just really know a lot of Scripture and have a caring, loving attitude. One girl came up and said, You seem like a really nice person. Can we get together? So, she’s not even thinking, Wow! This lady has this much education. She’s saying, You’re projecting a welcoming spirit and a loving spirit towards me. Could I get together with you? Those of us who have those people approach us need to set aside our little projects for the sake of serving. If you think about what’s truly important, we have our schedules, we have our plans each day; yet, investing in the kingdom yields lifelong, eternal benefits. We should be open to hearing that and we should be open to asking for wisdom from others.

Matt Tully
Cheryl, is there anything you would add related to the person who wants to find friends who will do this for them?

Cheryl Marshall
I think what Caroline said is really important—to be looking around at your local church. Looking around at the women who are older, but maybe there’s even women your own age. Maybe you’re in the same life stage, but maybe you see that they’re also seeking after the Lord and wanting to honor him with their lives. Maybe you think there’s a kindred spirit there, even if I don’t know her really well. Maybe I can just ask her if she wants to meet up with me at Starbucks or something like that. Several years ago there were three or four women that I know that decided to start getting together for breakfast every month or every two months (whatever our schedules could allow). They are my peers, but they speak truth into my life like nobody’s business. It’s taken time, but it took the initiative. Sometimes you may feel like, Nobody cares about me. Well, that might be the time that you need to look around and ask if you can meet with someone. You can speak into their life, they can speak into yours, and I believe the Lord will bless that in one way or another.

Matt Tully
Caroline and Cheryl, thank you so much for taking some time today to talk with me and help each of us think a little bit differently and a little bit better about how to have those conversations with those we love.

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